Pete Sikora 00:02
There is an implicit fear of politics and activism that is pervasive within American society. People are sort of taught that politics is a dirty business. They’re right, but that shouldn’t deter them from getting involved in trying to make a positive change.
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Helena Rambler 00:29
Welcome back to another episode of Bridging the Carbon Gap. Today, we are speaking with Pete Sikora, the climate campaigns director for New York Communities for Change. Due to the beautiful weather here in New York City, we had the pleasure of meeting with him in a neighborhood park.
Helena Rambler 00:47
So my name is Helena. I am a junior at Hunter College High School, and I am here with…
Pete Sikora 01:00
Pete Sikora, I’m the climate campaigns director for New York Communities for Change
Helena Rambler 01:05
and…
David Case 01:07
I’m David. I’m a senior at Hunter as well.
Helena Rambler 01:10
Okay, so to start off, could you just tell us a little bit about your job and what you do?
Pete Sikora 01:14
New York Communities for Change is a community group that organizes on jobs and housing and immigrant rights and fighting climate change. And we organize primarily in low and low middle income, Black and Latino communities in New York City and on Long Island. And so we run campaigns to win policy that helps our members at the federal, state and local level, mostly state and local, and also targeting some corporations. So we’re organized at a chapter level through neighborhood chapters that elect people from our membership to a board, and that’s the organization, and I’m one of the staffers, and so I direct our climate change campaigns.
David Case 01:56
We saw on your Twitter page that you’re a fan of Mamdani for mayor, and if you could maybe talk about his policies…
Pete Sikora 02:02
In terms of climate change, why Mamdani is solid is that number one, he organized a campaign successfully, along with us, but and many others, but really did a ton of work to stop a new fracked gas power plant from being built in his district in Astoria, and so stopping the Astoria NRG power plant was a very, very big deal, and he was a big factor in winning that campaign, so there’s less pollution in the air, less climate heating pollution, and less asthma causing pollution in the local area. So that’s really cool, that he won that is a big accomplishment.
He’s also been very big in pushing for public power, public renewable energy, and he’s been very helpful in Albany on issues that NYCC has been engaged on, which is passing legislation to stop gas and oil in all new buildings, which we want at the state level. And in part, through his support, he’s also a strong defender of New York City’s Local Law 97 which is our Green New Deal type law to prevent buildings from polluting and invest in energy efficiency and therefore create a lot of jobs and cut utility bills.
So I’m rambling on a little bit here, but he has a tremendous record on climate change and is running on a set of values that we strongly support.
He’s running an effective campaign with a simple message of helping to make New York City more affordable through fast and free buses, through a rent freeze and rent regulated apartments, and through no cost child care. So real basic issues that would really help New Yorkers afford living in the city, which is getting incredibly expensive and causing a lot of people to be able to have to move because they can’t afford it. So Mamdani is the person that we’re recommending people vote for, and I personally think is great.
That is not to say there aren’t other great candidates as well, including we’ve endorsed Brad Lander, who’s the current Comptroller. There’s multiple other candidates who I think are pretty great. Who we really, really do not like, Is Andrew Cuomo. He’s the disgraced former governor who was failed and had, you know, a pretty terrible record. So the thing to do here, you know, in my view, and in NYCC, is, please do not rank Andrew Cuomo. Rank five other people. You know, we’re ranking Mamdani number one, and that’s it.
Pierce Siegel
Hi, sorry I was late
Pete Sikora
Hi, Pierce. That is okay, Pierce. Are you also at Hunter?
Pierce Siegel
Yes, I’m a junior Hunter.
Pete Sikora
Oh, great, super.
David Case
And so Pierce, we’ve been talking about grassroots activism for climate change, and the mayoral race, and just now you mentioned local, non local, sorry, local law 97 and I guess I was also wondering how effective recent climate legislation has been in New York City, like the 2021 ban on new fossil fuel hookups and buildings the Green New Deal like whether the objectives set out in 2019 are still looking to be attainable for 2030, 2040, onward. What do you think?
Pete Sikora 04:50
Well, look, I think it might be a little bit self serving, but I think fundamentally accurate that the things that we’ve helped pass are enormously effective and creating, like really big positive change. So you know, we pushed very hard to pass legislation at the city and then the state level that ends oil and gas and all new construction that’s taken hold in New York City already. So if you’re applying for a new permit to build a new building that is under seven stories tall, your permit can’t include oil and gas boilers and other infrastructure. The building has to be Fossil Free, and that is fantastic. It means that the building will not produce air pollution and heat the climate. So that’s already taken hold.
So new construction in New York City. There’s about 2000 new buildings every year that get built in New York City, roughly speaking, most of those are smaller buildings under seven stories, those already now on new applications, cannot use any sort of fossil fuels. So that’s tremendous. In a couple years, that’ll include buildings over seven stories tall, which won’t be able to use it. And that law has already had a big effect on moving the market, so developers are getting ahead of it and producing buildings and plans that don’t include oil or gas use, which is great. So it’s had a very, very big effect.
It’s had a big effect globally, too, and sending a message, because when New York City does something, when New York State does something, kind of has a bang, you know, more generally. So that’s been great. That’s, yeah, that’s the gas ban on new construction of the all electric building act at the state level and the city level, of the law 154.
Helena Rambler 06:37
This could be slightly a general question, but like, what would your ideal green New York look like?
Pete Sikora 06:45
You know, I think it’s really important to connect multiple issues together. I don’t think that just solving air pollution can be done in isolation. We have a very unequal society where the top 1% in New York City take about 35% of the income generated in this city, the bottom 50% get about less than 5% of the income generated in the city. It is staggeringly unequal, and I think that tends to produce a society that can’t handle problems like climate change and has trouble dealing with them. So it also is a wrong that really needs to be fixed. It’s just terrible.
So when we’re fighting for something like Local Law 97 which has been labeled New York City’s Green New Deal law, the way that we push it reflects what benefits our membership, which is lots of great new jobs, lower air pollution, all of those things together really matter. And so I think that’s the most effective way to win change that benefits society as a whole, even if you’re just trying to fight climate change, I think it’s important to emphasize all of the things that matter here. So generally speaking, when I talk about this issue, I’ll talk about the problem as we want to avoid global catastrophe, New York City getting destroyed under rising seas and extreme weather events, and the opportunity is to create a lot of good jobs and reduce energy bills through renewable energy and make a better society. So we can take this crisis, which is terrible and has to be avoided, and use it to create a better society. And so that’s, that’s the kind of Green New Deal vision that I think we’re behind in trying to articulate,
Pierce Siegel 08:45
Speaking of lowering pollution, could you explain briefly about how congestion pricing is so controversial and why it’s important for New York City?
Pete Sikora 08:55
You know, drivers get real aggro, right? I mean, they’re just kind of a nervy bunch. So, you know, nobody likes to pay a toll. So people get pissed off about paying a toll, and it’s been free for a very long time to go over the bridges into Manhattan from Long Island and from New York, from Brooklyn and Queens. So, you know, I think people have in their heads this, like, you know, I can’t pay a toll. I don’t want to pay for, you know, crossing into Manhattan, you know. And who can blame them like that. That makes sense. Nobody wants to pay a toll. But, you know what? Grow Up things cost money like we actually need to support things like mass transit. You know, those aren’t free. Society needs functioning transit, and so there needs to be funding for it, and you can afford it. 95% of the drivers coming into the Manhattan core district can afford that toll. And for those who can’t, there’s help in the program too. So our members is pretty, pretty easy. 90% of our members are not car owners in New York City. And you know, most New Yorkers are not regular car drivers, but we do take the subways and the buses. And so there’s a couple million people who come into that congestion zone each day, and like 90% of them are coming in on buses and subways, not cars. And so what congestion pricing does is it creates a revenue stream for the busses and subways, and that’s had a tremendously important positive effect it’s created enabled the MTA to invest about $15 billion over five years into bus and subway service, and that’s enormously positive for our members and most New Yorkers. And so it also has other good effects, like reducing traffic and cleaning the air. So you know, if you were walking around Manhattan, it was pretty disturbing how often you would see ambulances stuck in traffic.
I don’t know if you saw this, but there’s been a noticeable decline in traffic in Manhattan, and actually all outside of Manhattan too, as a result of congestion pricing. And so it’s gotten people out of their cars, which are not a very efficient way to get around and into mass transit. It’s just great, you know. So why is it controversial? It’s a lot less controversial than it was before it passed. Every day the polling improves and the most recent polling has it favorable among New York City residents. The suburban people still view it unfavorably, but that is changing as people see the benefits.
Helena Rambler 11:43
We kind of made this podcast because at most New York City public schools, there’s not a climate curriculum, there’s not a climate class. So if you were to kind of create a class on environmental education, what would you include?
Pete Sikora 12:00
You know, I think it is a real shame that the curriculum doesn’t have a lot on this topic, particularly for young people who face some kind of a bleak future. To be honest, it’s sort of sad but true unless pollution is rapidly cut worldwide in order to avoid catastrophe. So you know, you can already feel the effects, and young people in particular have an enormous stake in preventing a global catastrophe in the coming decades.
It’s already hitting, and it’s kind of bad already, but it’s nothing compared to 10s of millions of refugees being forced to leave, you know, their their place where they live, because it’s wrecked, you know, or food shortages that cause skyrocketing food prices and famines, or extreme weather events that destroy parts of cities, or the daily grind of just terrible heat waves that are just miserable. These things are happening right now, and it is absolutely batshit crazy that our government is not mobilizing society to do something about this and to take on this problem head on. I mean, how insane are our policymakers that this is not a basic thing to be dealt with right now. So like, full stop right there. These are crazily irresponsible asses running society right now. In corporate America, in government, they need to do something. And a really good start would be to tell people about this problem, and that should include young people through a structured curriculum in the schools. That’s pretty basic to me.
Helena Rambler 13:42
Agreed. Yeah.
Pete Sikora 13:43
I mean, like, you know, what are we talking about here, you know, like, come on, you know, like, we’re teeth. We’re preparing young people with an education for a world that could be pretty, pretty bad if this problem is not dealt with. So, you know, what would I include in that kind of a curriculum? I would make it a central part of the entire curriculum to mobilize people to take on a huge social problem. Again, I wouldn’t do it in isolation for just dealing with climate change. I don’t think you can take on a problem like that without connecting it to wider social problems. So I would integrate it throughout the curriculum into a way to get people to understand the issue first and foremost and also help make a difference to improve it, and that includes action in the political arena, and the kind of things that NYCC does to pressure politicians and corporate decision makers to not screw our collective future.
Helena Rambler 14:41
Great, thank you.
Pierce Siegel 14:42
What are some of the biggest obstacles you face in pushing for a fossil free New York and world, and how would you overcome them?
Pete Sikora 14:51
You know, there are two huge obstacles, as I see it, to pushing governmental decision makers. Number one is the enormous influence of money in politics we’re usually taking on very deep pocketed interests that spend a ton of money on campaign donations, lobbyists, super PACs, jobs for ex elected officials and their staffers. There’s a money and influence Nexus that is very, very difficult to beat, and so that’s true on pretty much every campaign that we’re fighting on, on Local Law 97 the Williams pipeline, stopping gas and all new construction, we’re fighting some combination of the real estate lobby and the oil and gas lobby, and both of them are very powerful, particularly real estate in New York. So beating them in a political fight is very, very difficult because elected officials are responsive to them. No elected official is going to say out loud, I’m in the pocket of the real estate lobby. But instead, they’ll say things like, Well, I don’t know. This might cost a lot. Are you sure we should really do it? Like, that’s the kind of stuff that they’ll say, right? But then you look up their campaign contributions and the way that they relate to politics, and you realize, Oh, I get what’s going on here. So number one is the influence of money. But there’s also another big problem here, which is inertia. It is much easier to stop something from happening than to create some sort of big program to move us forward. And so if you’re the real estate lobby or the oil and gas lobby, basically, you want things to stay the way that they are. That’s the short term profits that you’re seeking. That’s the big executive compensation, you know, the payola that these people thrive on. And so they want the system to stay just like it is. And it’s easier to maintain inertia and maintain the current system than it is to change it. So they have an advantage there as well. And so for elected officials, you know, the default position is just like, kind of, like, bury the thing. Like, you know, act sympathetic. Oh yeah, yeah. That’s a nice thing you’re telling me about. Pat people on the head and off they go. Nothing changes, right? That’s, that’s, that’s what we have to get over, is elected, getting elected officials to actually do their jobs and create the kind of policies and programs that are necessary to deal with with society’s problems. So I would say those are the two big problems, money and inertia.
David Case 17:10
What do you think see as the barriers in terms of what’s keeping individuals from speaking up or lobbying, or, you know, going to certain events to advocate for their interests.
Pete Sikora 17:23
Yeah, I think the entire culture is pushing against that. You know? I think that there is an implicit fear of politics and activism that is pervasive within American society. People are sort of taught that politics is a dirty business. They’re right, but that shouldn’t deter them from getting involved and trying to make a positive change. So, you know, people are sort of implicitly pushed away from it. You know, politics is something you’re not really supposed to talk about with people. It’s like religion and politics, right? Classically, I don’t know if you’ve had your parents say, oh, you know, just stay away from sensitive topics like, you know that. So, so that’s, that’s, that’s one thing is that, you know, there’s kind of a go to sleep message from the mass culture, you know, go watch your TV. You know, see the latest Netflix show. You know, I don’t know, go buy a product or something. Make yourself happy with some and ignore what’s happening around you. So that’s one thing. The second thing is that I think a lot of people genuinely do not have the mental connection between their own actions and results they don’t see and don’t know that they can make a difference. Don’t believe it when you say it out loud and, you know, just think that, like, what’s my one phone call to some state assembly person’s office gonna do? You know, they’re just kind of like, Eh, you know, isn’t gonna really do much. So whatever you know. But in fact, it does a lot. You know that is the sort of pressure that gets these elected officials to jump up and do stuff. And again, it doesn’t take a lot, you know. So one of the things that, you know, fascinates me as an organizer and campaigner is that, you know, a very small percentage of people engage in these activities and get very, very big results. So you know, if you’re talking about the Civil Rights Movement, that’s the classic example of movement activism. It’s a vanishingly small percentage of Americans were actively involved in the Civil Rights Movement, pushing for, for for, for decency and justice. And what an impact that had. That’s true of basically every mass social movement in American history that has gotten results. It’s never more than, you know, a small percentage of society. So you should be part of that small percentage of society, you know. And that means going to events. It means picking up the phone, talking to your elected official. It means educating yourself. It means joining an organization and pushing for a good cause. And it doesn’t take up a huge amount of time. Now, you can also do this kind of thing professionally, too. You know, you can. After college, you can go get an organizing job, potentially, like, maybe that won’t be legal anymore if Trump continues on the path that he is. But, you know, but right now, you can do that, you know, like, you just have to be like, All right, I’m not going to make big bucks in corporate America? I’m gonna make small bucks and be a community organizer.
20:25
David Case 20:25
Sure. So is like, one of the biggest things in breaking that barrier between people who aren’t taking action, like informing them that their actions can sorry, that their actions can invoke genuine change.
Pete Sikora 20:42
Yeah, it’s so trite though, right? I mean, like, you know, somebody listening to this is like, Oh yeah, yeah, I can make change, yeah. You know, I think what happens is that we take people up a ladder of engagement and education so that they start to internalize that in a real way. They don’t just hear that message and just sort of nod in their heads, like, oh, that sounds nice. Good, good, yeah. But rather, they start to walk that idea, and by walking that path, they’re on that path, and then they begin to absorb that, I can get other people to do this. So that’s your hope as an organizer and as a campaigner, is that you’re getting people to take basic actions. By taking those basic actions, they’re learning the issues, they’re internalizing that they can get results and move society. And then they kind of catch the bug, and they start doing it more and more and more, and they hopefully they get others involved. And so that’s how I got involved, you know, you go talk to a lot of people, and, you know, some people will do stuff, and then they start to realize this is really important and useful. And then when they win something, they can see that, like, Okay, here’s what I did, it led to a better result. So one of the things I do in campaigns all the time is try to show volunteers how what they’re doing leads to a tangible result. And I think that’s a really important thing that a lot of groups and organizations don’t do very well, which is to show the call that you made to your elected official helped push through this legislation that is having a huge result. And so, you know, we really, we really try to emphasize that, or I try to emphasize that in organizing a campaign where you can make a difference, that doesn’t mean that, like your one call in isolation is going to change the world, it is not, but it is part, if it’s part of a broader, better, good campaign that involves people, and it doesn’t have to be huge numbers of people, it can make a very, very big difference. So that’s that’s the political and corporate campaigns realm. Of course, you can also make a difference on an individual level by doing things like recycling or composting or doing things that produce less pollution, but those things are not going to be enough to add up to the system change that we need without policies put into place.
Pierce Siegel 22:58
In line with that. Can you describe a recent campaign action that you’re proud of, and the impact it had within the community or within New York?
Pete Sikora 23:06
You know, we’ve had this great run like I worked for a union for about 10 years, and I worked for a public interest organization for about seven and the last several years for NYCC working on climate change have been, you know, the most kind of impactful in my career. And it’s kind of a weird thing, because usually, like, we’re the underdog, and by definition, underdogs usually lose. But like, virtually every campaign that we’ve made a strategic emphasis has won. Al, that’s not normal in my career. Oftentimes you lose, you know, right? But, but we’ve had this great, great streak of wins, and that has included getting the New York City pension funds to divest from oil and gas. The city has dumped $4 billion out of bonds and stocks and the likes of Exxon as a result of our divestment campaign. Yes, kid, keep going. You are right. I don’t know if people could hear that in the background, there’s a kid who said, keep going. Cute little kid on a scooter, and that’s a good message, keep going. So, you know, divestment was very successful. We’re very proud of that. That dealt a blow to the finances of the fossil fuel industry, passing the bill that became local law, 97 is probably the single most impactful thing we’ve done. That law is having an enormous effect on large buildings in New York City to cut pollution, create jobs and reduce utility bills, ending gas and all new construction. At the city level, we passed that law, and then at the state level, us and our allies got that through 1000s of buildings that are going to be new. Buildings are going to be built without oil or gas, which is a very, very big effect, you know. And those are some of the highlights. Recently, we just won a big campaign where the controller, Brad lander, agreed to start moving the city’s enormous pension funds, which control and invest about $300 billion away from the dirtiest money managers like BlackRock and into cleaner money managers. So that’s going to have a big effect on Wall Street finance, as well as the city starts to move its money from bad money managers, dirty money managers, to cleaner money manager. So, you know, we’re proud of all these wins, and they’re pretty great. You know, it’s really, really good stuff. Every single one of them has been a difficult, difficult campaign against pretty deep pocketed interests. And we’ve been, we’ve been winning, which is kind of great.
Helena Rambler 25:37
Kind of on that note. Like, do you think focusing I’m like, you’ve said how you’ve had such success in, like, the recent few years. Do you think focusing on these positives is a good way to kind of combat climate anxiety that has been spreading recently?
Pete Sikora 25:56
You know, I’m not real big on positivity sometimes, you know, like, I kind of think we’re, like, trying to fight a really big problem. So step one is the problem is, in fact, really big and bad. So that’s kind of a negative message, but, like, that’s the reality. The problem is huge. We’re up against big money interests. These are, you know, very scary and bad things that appropriately should induce anxiety in people. That is a very reasonable response to what is happening, which is that the world is on track for runaway climate change, which threatens, you know, people enormously that is a very reasonable thing to be anxious about. I think a good response to anxiety is to do something about it. And so maybe that’s where the positivity comes in, where, like, fundamentally, we are people who know we don’t hope for we know that if you mobilize in a Smart Campaign and push elected officials, you can win enormous results. So, you know, that’s the thing that we’re trying to do, channel that kind of, you know, anxiety, and rightly so about the future, to put pressure onto onto decision makers to get better results. So, you know, I guess it’s a positive, negative mix, but fundamentally, like, you know, I’m just pretty pissed off about the state of the world, and I use that to motivate myself to try and do something about it. So I think that’s, that’s kind of where, where things lie and should lie frankly, you know, like, I’m not, I’m not big into like, hippy dippy positivity,
David Case 27:35
Yeah, so talking about mobilization and action, was there maybe a defining moment earlier in your career when you realized, like, this thing that I’m doing is going to have really profound impact, or you could see it making that tangible change, and you know, something that got you more involved with climate and climate action, and kind of reaffirmed the idea that you know your actions were getting you somewhere?
Pete Sikora 28:02
You know, I think a pretty searing experience for me was early on as a student activist, seeing I was act I started. I grew up in Washington, heights, in upper Manhattan, and I got a job as a door to door canvasser, raising money for New Jersey PIRG, New Jersey Public Interest Research Group, and so I would go to door to door and raise money for them and get people to sign petitions and stuff like that. And it was, it’s a tough summer job, but I loved it. It was really great. It’s a great organization. They’re based on college campuses where they would have chapters funded through the student activity fee that students voted to set on themselves at the colleges in New Jersey, and that would then go to form this great organization that worked to create civic change and involve college students in activism. And that organization got so many results that the corporate interests in New Jersey launched a campaign to destroy the organization, and so they launched a surprise attack in the New Jersey legislature to make it illegal for student activity fee money on college campuses in New Jersey to go to support organizations that engage In lobbying that is pushing public officials to take positions. That was the kill perg bill. And so this is a long way of getting at your response. But, you know, I took two weeks off from college to, like, organize against that bill passing. And so I was going door to door and generating phone calls into a particular state senator in New Jersey and Peter and Verso. And you know, it was a big campaign to try and stop that bill against these corporate interests, and we lost in the end. And I was there when the bill passed, watching and they were so psyched that they had defeated New Jersey PIRG, they had succeeded. And boy, were they happy with themselves, like pigs and shit. And that was a really searing experience for me, watching these mothers celebrate on the floor of the legislature, this terrible thing that they had done that I had just spent a couple weeks volunteering to try and defeat. There’s no good argument for this bill. It was just like a terrible thing. It was obviously a reward for big corporate interests and like they were psyched about it. And, you know, these were Republicans who in control of the legislature at that moment. But it’s, it isn’t just Republicans that often do the wrong thing as elected officials. So, you know, that was, I think, the moment for me, where I realized, wow, this thing that I’m involved in is so threatening that these guys, they’re all guys, like, we’re like, we’re getting together with big money interests to, like, run a really deep campaign to defeat us. And, like, that’s how threatening they found it. And so that, to me, was a demonstration of, like, wow, this stuff really, this is a big deal, you know. So that’s, that’s, I think, the most searing experience I had as an activist early on, it was actually losing.
Helena Rambler 31:08
We’ve also seen, like when we were reading kind of previous interviews, there was an article where I think you were interviewing with your old high school, Fieldston. So like, did growing up in the city kind of affect your views of climate change at all?
Pete Sikora 31:24
Gee, I don’t know. I mean, I think, you know, if you’re growing up in the city, you’re a more savvy kid, you know. Like, obviously, we all think New York City is the shit. And, like, you know, it kind of is, you know. And that’s just a reality. I think that when you grow up in New York City, you get savvier at a younger age faster than in many parts of the country. New York City also forces you to have experiences that expose you to multiple cultures and different types of people in a way that a monoculture in the suburbs or in a rural area does not. So you know, I was growing up white kid in Washington Heights. Almost everyone in the neighborhood was not white, and I often had that experience of being a minority in a larger crowd. And then I would go to this fancy prep school where it was kind of the reverse. It was like a lot of rich people, and like, I felt a little bit out of place there, you know, and I think that affected the way that I saw society, and American society in general. I kind of adopted, I think, a little bit more of an underdog view, and that has caused me, I think, to want to be involved in these types of fights. So, you know, climate change is, like, one of your big underdog issues. I really identify with it. I think it’s a huge problem that it’s solving. And so I really, like, you know, working on it, it can get a little bit depressing, because you’re up against a ticking clock that’s ticking, you know, very, very rapidly. So, you know, I feel a lot of pressure to get results. And so on that level, it’s a little bit kind of frightening, but an anxiety producing as an issue in a way that other issues where, like, if you don’t solve it today, if you don’t get results like it doesn’t mean you can’t solve it tomorrow. Climate change isn’t like that, like their pollution can’t be reversed, like we have to do it now. We have to reduce pollution now. And so there’s a lot of urgency to the issue. But anyway, being in a fancy prep school, like as a kid, is very much an experience that can, you know, change you a lot.
Pierce Siegel 33:39
You’re not big on positivity, but what gives you hope for the future the climate movement, both in New York and globally?
Pete Sikora 33:52
Yeah, I’m not a real hope-y guy in that way, like you’re saying, you know, like, I don’t really think of it as, like, you know what big social trend will will bail us out more like, what can I tangibly do to make the difference that can, that can help, you know? So I, you know, I don’t, honestly, I don’t think that this is a very hope-y situation. I think you have to look at it squarely as what it is, which is not great, you know. So I think that ought to be motivating to do something about it, even if it’s, you know, a negative and scary motivation. So, you know, I, what makes me, you know, want to do this stuff, is that I know it works. So, like, you know, if you want to get results, and I do, this is what you should do, you know. So that’s, that’s hopeful, I guess, in that sense. But I don’t think of it as hopeful. I just think of it as realistic. Like, that’s what works, you know, like, why wouldn’t I do it? It works. In fact, it makes me angry when, you know, I see organizations or individuals, you know, taking a line that undermines that sort of.
David Case 35:02
Sorry, it’s a bit off topic, but I read an article about the stop the Williams project coalition and activism to stop sort of fossil fuel infrastructure, and I was wondering if you could just tell us a bit more about activism in terms of projecting that project and projects that are being lobbied against.
Pete Sikora 35:19
Yeah. Oh sure, yeah. Well, I mean, Trump is trying to get New York to agree to more fracked gas pipelines running through the state, so he’s putting pressure on the Governor Kathy Hochul to do that right now. They’ve had several conversations about that, and one of those projects that he wants to get her to agree to New York, previously rejected. It’s called the Williams NESC project. It’s a big Fracked Gas Pipeline project from New Jersey to New York, through the river and the Bay to carry a ton of fracked gas, which, when burned, causes an enormous amount of pollution, including climate, heating pollution. So we oppose those pipelines and campaign aggressively to stop them from being approved and permitted and built. It’s like the Dakota Access Pipeline or Keystone XL. These are enormous, enormous projects that cause an incredible amount of pollution. So we try to stop them. So, you know, I’m happy to talk about how we do that and what I think students ought to be doing.
David Case 36:24
Yeah, that would be great, actually.
Pete Sikora 36:25
Oh, okay, wow. Led into that. All right, I’ll be going to pontificate a little again. So, so look, I think we’re successful by mobilizing people power on specific targets to get them to take a position. So we identify a decision maker on an issue and then put pressure on them through people power to get them to take the stance that we want. So we’re often up against big money, big corporations that want a particular result that does not help our membership, that hurts our membership, so we try to mobilize that kind of pressure through the grassroots to to make that decision maker make the right call, and that’s usually an elected official, but sometimes a corporate decision maker. So, you know, we live in a sort of democracy, not a very functional democracy, maybe not even a democracy at all anymore, but elected officials do feel the need to react to pressure from constituents, and so when we mobilize people to do things like call their representatives, rally outside their offices, yell at them when they’re at some event, you know, lobby them. All of those things create a lot of pressure to then take a particular position. So that’s how we won the fight to stop the Williams pipeline, is we just relentlessly pushed Governor Cuomo, at the time, to reject the Williams Corporation’s application for building that pipeline. And eventually we won. And so usually what we’re doing is mobilizing our membership, which is primarily in low income communities of color, and combining that political force with the predominantly white progressives who are often active on climate change already put those two forces together. That’s a very powerful combination, particularly in a Democratic Party. Primary electorally, it’s very strong. And so if we can demonstrate that strong coalition to a politician who has ambitions for re election or election to a higher office that can make a very, very big difference in the way that they consider an issue. And that’s often how we win at the grassroots level, that is at the individual level and at the level of people organized in small numbers, like in a class at Hunter or in a neighborhood chapter of NYCC like that level of people getting together to push for something that helps them is, like, incredibly important. So obviously, this is the theory of basic civics and democracy, that people are going to want to push for things that make sense for them and for society as a whole. And that that’s how part of how you win, it isn’t just about a one time election where you vote for somebody into office and then kind of walk away from the whole system and kind of hope for the best, assuming that they’re just going to kind of act in your interest. That is absurd. That’s what 95% of Americans do. And look at the horrible state of society today. We need people to get involved and actually advocate for their interests, instead of just sitting on the sidelines, casting a vote occasionally and then being horrified when a Donald Trump gets elected. You know, you don’t have to be like super, super knowledgeable or deeply engaged to make a difference. It’s just useful to do some things sometimes, you know, and so there’s no need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good. You just gotta get involved and, you know, help out a little bit. So very easy to go on the internet, find a cause, find an issue, at the city, state, federal level, pick up the phone, call your representative and tell them to take action. That’s a very, very basic and good step that everyone should just do. Just figure out who is your city council person, your mayor, your state legislators, your congress people. Call them and bug them about, you know, some issue that is clearly an important topic, you know, and then get involved in an organization and spend some time volunteering. Those are, those are really good things, and you should just do it. It’s, it’s a good thing to do. Sounds good?
David Case 40:28
Yeah, thank you.
Helena Rambler 40:29
Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure to speak with you today.
Pete Sikora 40:32
Oh, likewise, this is so so nice. I’m really glad you’re doing this podcast, and it’s, it’s really nice to talk to you all.
Helena Rambler 40:38
You thank you for listening to our tiny podcast about a giant topic. We’ve learned we have listeners all over the world, and we’re curious who you are and what you would like to hear on the show. So if you’d like please send us an email at podcast at the city atlas.org, that’s podcast at the city atlas.org. Thanks for listening.